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English, male, slightly overweight. Have been living in Poland since 1994, and longer outside my home country. I teach, translate, write, dabble in journalism and music.
This writer, in his column today for respectable British newspaper The Independent claims that Varsovians feel more in common with the Germans than the Russians. Is that true? Comments, please.
posted by Jim @ 10:39 pm
3 Comments:
i'd say yes although i can't find a logical reason why. you know i'm an instinctive person ^^'
well, i know some people still see russia as a country of intelectual and technical blackout, i don't really know if they are right or wrong but, anyway *shrugs* when americans needed something to write while being in cosmos, they invented special pen they could use in weightlessness. and what did russians do? took a pencil XD
When I first got interested in the causes of the WW II outbreak I asked my teacher why Poland refused Russia’s offer of help. In 1939 Russia suggested sending its troops to Poland in an attempt to help us fight Hitler in case of war. My teacher answered citing the Polish foreign affairs secretary words, at that time it was J. Beck, - “With Germans we risk losing our independence, with Russians we risk losing our souls”. Clearly, Beck did not believe in Russians’ good intentions. He knew if they once stepped in they would never pull out. However, I did not understand all that talk about our souls.
Putting the issue into perspective I can see clearly now what Beck was trying to say. The Nazis, killing and committing all atrocities, put their point distinctly into the open. First, they wanted to annihilate Jews, then Poles. From the Poles point of view there was no doubt. They had to fight to save not only their independence but also their existence as a nation. The evil was tangible, widely seen, felt and understood. The Poles, unlike many nations in Europe, did not co-operate with the Nazis. They fought them from the first to the last day of the war.
After the war when Germany became a truly democratic state, the threat of it becoming an aggressor again has practically faded away. In parallel with it our feelings towards Germans have been changing from hostile to friendly. The ease with which we can visit and get to know each other also helps the matter. When threat disappears, trust and then friendliness take over.
With Russians things took quite a different twist. They were masters of double talk. They said they liberated us from German oppressor and at the same time were murdering Home Army soldiers, sweeping away all people that could have intellectually or morally opposed their communist (read the Mob) ideology. You can read everything about this ideology in George Orwell’s “Animal Farm”, so I’m not going to enlarge upon it. The point is that this insidious policy has been finding its way to many people in Poland, putting a lot of strain on our political and social life. The Independent reporter said that middle class in Poland seems to be the most afraid of Russia. No wonder – they are the ones whose souls haven’t been poisoned just because they are better educated and can think independently and see through comrade Putin.
To sum up Germany doesn’t pose any threat to Poland today, so we naturally are becoming more open to them and starting kind of liking them. Whereas Russia, as a state far from being democratic, cause a major hazard to our freedom and safety. You don’t like a guy you are afraid of, do you?
Greetings
Too bad the article is for subscribers only, I would love to read it.
There is a joke about our relations with Germany and Russia:
'If Germany and Russia attacked us again, like in '39, with whom would we be fighting first?'
'Germany, of course - duty first, then pleasure.'
I'd say that a typical Polack will have more in common with a Ruski, than with a German. They share the same, thomistic morality, they are quite similar in their nations' stereotypes. They have similar, brutal memories from the past (WW2, communism). Politics? Of course, many Poles hate Putin and view him as an incarnation of a typical russian tyrant, like Ivan the Terrible or Stalin, and they dispise the Russian goverment for the war in Chechnya and so forth. But that doesn't mean that a Polack and Ruski wouldn't drink together if they had a chance - I think that Poles and Russians could tell the difference between the people and the goverment.
That, I think, is a very important part - Andy wrote how we never trusted Russia. But "Russia" means the goverment, not the people.
And about the WW2 - we hated Germans not only because they killed our people, but also because they loved Hitler and fought the war for their own prosperity. We don't despise Russians so much because we know, that they were subjected to terror and opression and didn't fight for their wealth, but for the sick desires of Stalin.
One more thing - after the fall of the communist regime here in Poland, Poles sometimes view themselves as the nation responsible for democracy in Eastern Europe. That's why many Poles actually feel pitty for Russians and Belarusians and support (sometimes only in big words) their fight for real freedom.
And the Germans... well, I think that some of the Poles still dislike them because they are richer, and because we think that they dispise us. We envy Germans for their productivity, pragmatism and tidiness.
And the traits that we dislike in Russians are usually also our traits - like laziness and disrespecting the law, for example. It's far more difficault to find similarities (even the negative ones) between Germans and Poles.
Well, perhaps the younger generation (like me) would find better communication with Germans because they are more modern and more "western" than Russians.
Germans, still, are simply more respected by Poles. Russians? They're the same, if not worse than us. They earn less, their country is a wreck... what to respect?
***
Wow.
What a load of rubbish :)
Hope that has at least some sense :)
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